The Frock Doc

20 Comments

• dustt replied 9 years ago

  lyn - I agree - that's NUTS!! - way to stick to your own values!!

• dustt replied 9 years ago

  oh and the pug - stealing pancakes - beyond awesome!!

• Aida replied 9 years ago

  Hm Lyn I think you have very smart shopping strategies. If you make a lot that doesn't mean you HAVE to spend a lot. It's not like you're dressing in a slovenly way that will hold you back from advancement. You know how to dress beyond your budget, if you know what I mean. I think there are many people who equate higher price with higher quality and while that may hold true in some cases, it is certainly not true in all cases. I vote continue being selective and true to yourself. If you can afford that "investment" piece you love when it comes along, all the better. That said, it could be worth browsing that store in person because it's helpful to see and feel items at varying price points even if it's just for the sake of education.

• lyn* replied 9 years ago

  @ Dustt - I know, aren't pugs THE BEST? I love their little crinkly faces and the way they like to steal your stinky socks and chew them like they are yummynomnoms. Nope. Just socks.

  @ Aida - Thank you! I think that's a huge compliment! I have been in that store before, but I definitely felt like I didn't belong there - and the sales staff are like vultures trying to get you to suck into this clothing payment plan. It feels like high-pressured car sales! :P

• viva replied 9 years ago

  Lyn, I love the way you dress -- it's always thoughtful and polished and beautiful. Also, I agree that encouraging recent graduates to go into debt for fashion's sake is not particularly helpful -- especially at a place where $2,000 may not buy much ($800 for a raincoat?) and given that those grads probably have a lot of student debt already.

  Still, the idea of dressing aspirationally in a professional setting is not new. "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have" is a very old saying and in some ways wise. It basically says look even more professional than you think you have to, and you may be taken more seriously. I don't disagree with that idea, especially if you work in a more conservative arena with levels and a structured growth path. And for someone in the workplace it's a good idea to occasionally look at one's wardrobe and assess, to make sure your clothes are saying what you want them to say. Because your clothes do say things about who you are. (That's part of why we are so careful about selecting our descriptors and our items.)

  I agree with Aida that occasionally looking at investment pieces might at least be good as an education as to what else is out there. 

• Classically Casual replied 9 years ago

  My two cents...If it were me, I'd want to wear work clothing that my clients could relate to, rather than be intimidated by...impressing the staff would not seem to be the goal, but there's probably a lot of subtext here that I'm missing. Stick to your guns, *Lyn!

• rachylou replied 9 years ago

  I find that... evil.

  On the other hand, I have worked for a salesman before. I've dated salesmen. It's a real psych-out, to get yourself going for high-pressure, high-flying negotiations. Clothes are part of the mental prep.

  ... And yes, I've only dated salesmen in short flights of fancy. My RATE style is not at all helpful for their psyches. Hehe. Or mwahaha!

• lyn* replied 9 years ago

  @ Viva - I enjoy going to conferences and workshops, partly to see how other colleagues dress, and I think I'm pretty much in the middle. I am a little bit of a boundary pusher with some of my funny patterns and conversational prints, but there's other ways in which we are self-expressive as well, including one lovely lady who has the funkiest shoe collection! I will be casting a critical eye over my wardrobe again this summer and in the fall to make sure that I am properly attired for advancement to a staff position, and not a schlupy student.

  @ Classically Casual - I think you're right too. In my work I try to relate with the patients as much as I can by being approachable and warm. I think part of my love for skirts and dresses is part of this - most authority figures wear pants and darker colours. Heels also allow me to "announce" my presence, so I don't sneak up on anyone by accident. I don't wear any visible name brands or expensive jewellery, as I am aware of the financial divide between our patients and us, and I would imagine that would not feel very comfortable.

  @ Rachylou - You have the best cackle. I bet you even toss your head back ;)

• viva replied 9 years ago

  Lyn, you have nothing to worry about. (I hope I didn't sound like I was preaching to you -- I was just trying to explain that I agreed with the message underneath that poorly executed sales pitch.)

  Don't let that sales pitch or that mentor make you question yourself. I am sure your instinct in reviewing and assessing your wardrobe is always right on. Your outfits sure seem to be!

• lyn* replied 9 years ago

  Oh no, I don't think you were being preachy at all :) I appreciate your opinion and your message too.

  I love YLF - everyone is so kind and has such large and generous hearts and spirit :)

• Laurie replied 9 years ago

  lyn, your style is great for you.  You enjoy your clothes, they fit you well and  you look feminine and professional at the same time.  The fact that you're a doctor speaks for itself about your intelligence and your aspiration show  for itself through your education, hard work, dedication and long hours you've put  into your career.  And although I've been know to buy some expensive pieces, I buy them because I like them now and to use them now.  Clothes, shoes, bags, don't last forever, I just can't think of them as "investments".  You've already done the important investing in yourself.  Just my initial thought :)

• MRL replied 9 years ago

  I am an accountant and have worked in many business settings over a span of many years. To be really, really honest, I have seen people (both men and women) move up the ladder who were not the best dressed people in the office. My own experience has led me to wonder if this is over exaggerated. Nothing against very nice, upscale clothing but there is no way I would encourage a young person to go into heavy debt for work clothing. This might be different in certain settings (such as Wall Street), but in general dressing professionally can be done on a budget.

• ironkurtin replied 9 years ago

  I think "dressing to impress" is very traditional advice, and following it will depend on how traditional you want to be. 

  Also - the fact that this comes from a male mentor deserves some head-scratching.  Has he commented on your clothing before?  Is it appropriate for him to do so?  Is there any way how you dress affects others' opinions of your professional skills, as you are young/female/petite/wear glasses/whatever?

  I'm going to err on the side of maybe he was trying to be helpful, and letting you know "nice" things were within reach if you wanted them.  Still, I think comments like that are inappropriate unless they are strictly job-related.

• Isis replied 9 years ago

  I also find it slightly bizarre that a male mentor has given you shopping advice for clothes you don't wear now.  Is it a veiled criticism of your current clothes?  Or is it just off-the-cuff standard advice?  Hmmm...

• TraceyLiz65 replied 9 years ago

  My sister is in a male dominant. Computer field and encoutered so much unsolicited advice from male peers who once told her that her anklet wasn't office appropriate . I wonder if he is intimidated by your beautiful curves and would prefer you hide them? I could be way off but regardless going into debt is ridiculous advice .

• Aida replied 9 years ago

  Gosh Tracey I can't imagine any of the males I've worked with in computing giving any kind of cohesive fashion advice! The graphic guys though, they appreciate how I experiment with color ;)

• unfrumped replied 9 years ago

  What MRL said.
  Most people would not be able to be outfitted at just one sore anyway.
  I think the hardest thing is scwuiring the basic knowledge-- dressing body type, good fit, how different fabrics perform, what are signs of good ( or shoddy) construction, how to mix and match-- that sort of info is what allows you to pick and choose from an array
  of retailers and price points and find the right value point for your needs and budget.

• Suz replied 9 years ago

  What Isis and Ironkurtain said. I think it's peculiar that a male mentor would be giving you shopping advice. I wonder if he is getting a commission from that store? ;) 

  In all seriousness, you are someone who clearly puts effort into your dressing and we have seen you upgrade your items over the years as your means allowed, and evolve your style (e.g. longer skirts) as your position has changed. So I don't know what this guy is on about. 

  I do think his comment is out of place. But as for what might be underneath it... Maybe he equates feminine with "lightweight." And so anyone who dresses in a feminine way is not "serious."  

  Imogen is doing a series on yin and yang in clothing.   Maybe it will interest you. 

  Ultimately, I guess we sometimes struggle to find a balance. What feels right to us and authentic yet also conveys the message we want -- even to dunderheads like this guy? 

• rabbit replied 9 years ago

  Like IK, I'm curious about the subtext.   Was there something else he was trying to convey elliptically, and if so, could he be asked directly with everyone remaining comfortable with the conversation.

  In terms of the store offering a credit line for recent graduates, to me this basically mirrors the credit cards making a killing off college students who may lack real world experience with budgeting and still be financially tied to their parents. It is possible to dress very smartly for a new position or interviewing cycle without ever paying retail, and I'm wondering what the interest rate is on this line of credit.  

• lyn* replied 9 years ago

  "You can dress like a Queen Bee!!!" - the radio ad says :)

  @ Laurie - Thank you for your kind words. I think it was more a situation of circumstance as opposed to true hard work - but it's definitely a career I enjoy. I do have some expensive pieces as well, and they are lovely while they are around, but they're definitely not RRSP's!

  @ MRL - My observations have paralleled yours; I think there's an element of looking put together and confident, but by no means does that necessarily equate to necessarily going broke!

  @ IronKurtain - I think he means that I can buy nice things if I want to; vs. I must by nice things NOW. He has nice things, but he's staff :p

  @ Isis - I don't think he's criticizing my choices; maybe a misguided way of reinforcement? 

  @ TraceyLiz - That reminds me of this one colleague who commented that women wearing scrubs were distracting to him, especially if they were too tight. Curves! Ladies have them!

  @ Unfrumped - That's the basic stuff I came to YLF to learn :)

  @ Suz - Thank you for the interesting article link - I may have to mix more yang with my yin elements. I think I also have a "therapeutic persona" of being more soft and nice, and use it to my advantage ;)  

  @ Rabbit - You'll be pleased to know there is NO INTEREST on this line of credit as long as you continue to make at least $300 more in purchases a month!!!! It sounds like a financial nightmare to me.